Conversation with Capt. Brown.

Several of the Reporters who visited Harper’s Ferry last week availed themselves of an opportunity to be present at an interview which Mr. Senator Mason, of Virginia, and the Hon. Mr. Faulkner, also of Virginia, and Mr. Vallandigham, of Ohio, had with Capt. Brown and Capt. Stevens, two of the conspirators who were wounded and taken prisoners. The conversation is thus reported:

Mr. Mason. Can you tell us who furnished money for your expedition?
Mr. Brown. I furnished most of it myself. I cannot implicate others. I could have escaped.
Mr. Mason. You mean if you had escaped immediately?
Mr. Brown. No; I had the means to make myself secure without any escape, but I allowed myself to be surrounded by a force by being too tardy.
Mr. Mason. If you would tell us who sent you here–who provided the means– that would be information of some value.
Mr. Brown. I will answer freely and faithfully about what concerns myself. I will answer anything I can with honor, but not about others.
Mr. Vallandigham. Did you get up the expedition yourself?
Mr. Brown. I did.
Mr. Vallandigham. Did you get up this document that is called a constitution?
Mr. Brown. I did. They are a constitution and ordinance of my own contriving and getting up.
Mr. Vallandigham. How long have you been engaged in this business?
Mr. Brown. From the breaking out of the difficulties in Kansas. Four of my sons had gone there to settle, and they induced me to go. I did not go there to settle, but because of the difficulties.
Mr. Mason. How many are engaged with you in this movement? I ask these questions for your own safety.
Mr. Brown. Any questions that I can honorably answer I will, not otherwise. So far as I am myself concerned I have told everything truthfully. I value my word, sir.
Mr. Mason. How do you justify your acts?
Brown. I think, my friend, you are guilty of a great wrong against God and humanity. I say that without wishing to be offensive. It would be perfectly right for any one to interfere with you, so far as to free those you wilfully and wickedly hold in bondage. I do not say this insultingly.
Mr. Mason. I understand that.
Brown. I think I did right, and that others will do right who interfere with you at any time, and all times. I hold that the golden rule, do unto others as you would that others do unto you, applies to all who would help others to gain their liberty.
Mr. Vallandigham. Where did your men come from? Did some of them come from Ohio?
Brown. Some of them.
Mr. V. Have you been in Ohio this summer?
Brown. Yes, sir.
Mr. V. How lately?
Brown. I passed through Pittsburgh on my way in June.
Mr. V. Were you at any county or State fair there?
Brown. I was not there since June.
Mr. Mason. Did you consider this a military organization in this paper? (showing a copy of the so-called constitution and ordinance.) I have not read it.
Brown. I did in some measure. I wish you would give that paper your close attention.
Mr. M. You considered yourself the commander-in-chief of this provisional military force?
Brown. I was chosen, agreeably to the ordinance of a certain document, commander-in-chief of that force.
Mr. M. What wages did you offer?
Brown. None.
Lieut. Stuart. The wages of sin is death.
Brown. I would not have made such a remark to you if you had been a prisoner and wounded in my lands.
Mr. Vallandigham. Were you ever in Dayton, Ohio?
Brown. Yes, I have been there.
Mr. V. This summer?
Brown. No. A year or two since.
Mr. Mason. Does this talking annoy you at all?
Brown. Not in the least.
Mr. Vallandigham. Have you lived long in Ohio?
Brown. I went there in 18[?]5. I lived in Summit count, which was then Trumbull county. My native place is York state.
Mr. V. Do you recollect a man in Ohio named Brown, a noted counterfeiter.
Brown. I do. I knew him from a boy. His father was Henry Brown, of Irish or Scotch descent. The family was very low.
Mr. V. Have you ever been in Portage county.
Brown. I was there in June last.
Mr. V. When in Cleveland did you attend the Fugitive Slave Law Convention there?
Brown. No! I was there about the time of the sitting of the court to try the Oberlin rescuers. I spoke there publicly on that subject. I spoke on the fugitive slave law and of my own rescue. Of course so far as I had any preference at all I was disposed to justify the Oberlin people for rescuing the slave, because I have myself forcibly taken slaves from bondage. I was concerned in taking eleven slaves from Missouri to Canada last winter. I think I spoke in Cleveland before the Convention. I do not know that I had any conversation with any of the Oberlin rescuers. I was sick part of the time I was in Ohio. I had the ague. I was part the time in Ashtabula county.
Mr. V. Did you see anything of Joshua R. Giddings there?
Brown. I did meet him.
Mr. V. Did you consult with him?
Brown. I did. I would not tell you, of course, anything that would implicate Mr. Giddings, but I certainly met with him and had a conversation with him.
Mr. V. About that rescue case?
Brown. Yes, I did. I heard him express his opinion upon it very freely and frankly.
Mr. V. Justifying it?
Brown. Yes, sir. I do not compromise him in saying that.
A bystander. Did you go out to Kansas under the auspices of the Emigrant Aid Society?
Brown. No, sir. I went under the auspices of Old John Brown, and nobody else’s.
Mr. V. Will you answer this? Did you talk with Giddings about your expedition here?
Brown. No, sir; I won’t answer that because a denial of it I could not make; and to make affidavit of it I would be a great dunce.
Mr. V. Have you had any correspondence with parties at the North on the subject of this movement?
Brown. I have had correspondence.
Bystander. Do you consider this a religious movement?
Brown. It is in my opinion the greatest service a man can render to his God.
Bystander. Upon what principle do you justify your act?
Brown. By the golden rule. I pity the poor in bondage; that is why I am here; it is not to gratify any personal animosity or feeling of revenge or vindictive spirit. It is my sympathy with the oppressed and wronged, that are as good as you, and as precious in the sight of God.
Bystander. Certainly; but why take the slaves against their will?
Brown. (warmly.) I never did.
Bystander. You did in one instance at least.
Stevens, (to the inquirer, interrupting Brown.) You are right, sir; in one case I know the negro wanted to go back. (To Brown.) Captain the gentleman is right.
Bystander, (to Stevens.) Where did you come from?
Stevens. I lived in Ashtabula county, Ohio.
Mr. Vallandigham. How recently did you leave Ashtabula county.
Stevens. Some months ago. I never resided there any length of time. I have often been through there.
Mr. V. How far do you live from Jefferson?
Brown. (to Stevens.) Be very cautious, Stevens, about an answer to that; it might commit some friend. I would not answer it all.
Stevens, (who had been groaning considerably, as if the exertion necessary to conversation seriously affected him,) seemed content to abide by “my captain’s” decision. He turned over and was silent.
Mr. V., (to Brown.) Who were you advisers in this movement?
Brown. I have numerous sympathizers throughout the entire North.
Mr. V. In Northern Ohio?
Brown. No more there than anywhere else in all the free States.
Mr. V. But you are not personally acquainted in Southern Ohio?
Brown. Not very much.
Mr. V. Were you at the Convention last June?
Brown. I was. I want you to understand, gentlemen, that I respect the rights of the poorest and weakest of colored people oppressed by the slave system, just as much as I do those of the most wealthy and powerful. That is the idea that has moved me, and that alone. We expected no reward; we expected the satisfaction of endeavoring to do for them in distress— the greatly oppressed— as we would be done by. The cry of distress and of the distressed is my reason, and the only one, that impelled me.
Bystander. Why did you do it secretly?
Brown. Because I thought it necessary for success, and for no other reason.
Bystander. You think that honorable, do you? Have you read Gerritt Smith’s last letter, in which he says “that it is folly to attempt to strike the shackles off the slave by the force of moral suasion or legal agitation,” and predicts that the next movement made in the direction of negro emancipation will be an insurrection in the South?
Brown. I have not; but I presume from your remark about the gist of the letter I should concur with it. I agree with Mr. Smith that moral suasion is hopeless. I don’t think the people of the slave States will ever consider the subject of slavery in its true light until some other argument is resorted to than moral suasion.
Mr. Vallandigham. Did you expect a general rising of the slaves in case of your success?
Brown. No, sir; nor did I wish it. I expected to gather strength from time to time; then I could have set them free.
Mr. V. Did you expect to hold possession here until then?
Brown. Well, probably I had quite a different idea. I do not know that I ought to reveal my plans. I am here a prisoner and wounded because I foolishly allowed myself to be so. You overrate your strength when you suppose I could have been taken if I had not allowed it. I was too tardy after commencing the open attack in delaying my movements through Monday night and up to the time I was attacted by the Government troops. It was all occasioned by my desire to spare the feelings of my prisoners and their families, and the community at large.
Mr. V. Did you not shoot a negro on the bridge; or did not some of your party?
Brown. I knew nothing of the shooting of the negro, (Haywood)
Mr. V. What time did you commence your organization in Canada?
Brown. It occurred about two years ago. If I remember right it was, I think, in 1858.
Mr. V. Who was the Secretary?
Brown. That I would not tell if I recollected, but I do not remember. I think the officers were elected in May, 1858. I may answer incorrectly, but not intentionally. My head is a little confused by wounds, and my memory of dates and such like is somewhat confused.
Dr. Biggs. Were you in the party at Dr. Kennedy’s house?
Brown. I was the head of that party. I occupied the house to mature my plans.
Dr. B. What was the number of men at Kennedy’s?
Brown. I decline to answer that.
Dr. B. Who lanced that woman’s
Brown. I did. I have sometimes pracitsed in surgery when I thought it a matter of humanity or of necessity— when there was no one else to do it; but I have not studied surgery.
Dr. B., (to persons around.) It was done very well and scientifically. These men have been very clever to the neighbors, I have been told and we had no reason to suspect them, except that we could not understand their movements. They were represented as eight or nine persons on Friday.
Brown. There were more than thirteen.
Questions were now put in by almost every one in the room, as follows:
Q. Where did you get arms?
Brown. I bought them.
Q. In what State?
Brown. That I would not tell.
Q. How many guns?
Brown. Two hundred of Sharp’s rifles and two hundred revolvers– what is called the Massachusetts Arms’ Company’s revolvers– a little under the navy size.
Q. Why did you not take that swivel you left in the house?
Brown. I had no occasion for it. It was given to me a year or two ago.
Q. In Kansas?
Brown. No! I had nothing given to me in Kansas.
Q. By whom and in what State?
Brown. I decline to answer that. It is not properly a swivel; it is a very large rifle on a pivot. The ball is larger than a musket ball; it is intended for a slug.

If you do not want to converse any more I will remark to these reporting gentlemen that I claim to be here in carrying out a measure I believe to be perfectly justifiable, and not to act the part of an incendiary or ruffian; but, on the contrary, to aid those suffering under a great wrong. I wish to say further that you had better, all you people of the South, prepare yourselves for a settlement of this question. It must come up for settlement sooner than you are prepared for it, and the sooner you commence that preparation the better for you. You may dispose of me very easily; I am nearly disposed of now; but the question is still to be settled– this negro question, I mean. The end is not yet.
Q. Was your only object to free the negro?
Brown. Absolutely our only object.
Bystander. But you went and took Col. Washington’s silver and watch?
Brown. Oh! yes, we intended freely to have appropriated the property of slave-holders to carry out our object. It was for that, only that; we had no design to enrich ourselves with any plunder what-ever.